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Was The Mentalist’s Red John ever gone? Nope, because he’s Patrick Jane

I know there are a great many people who not only hate the fact that Jane didn't kill the real Red John last season, but hate my favorite theory: Patrick Jane is Red John. But this episode screamed in support of it.

- Season 4, Episode 8 - "Blinking Red Light"

To be honest, I’m not sure if the events in this episode were a clever foreshadowing of sorts, or if the show’s writers are playing a game with those of us who believe the theory that Patrick Jane is a¬†schizophrenic who lives a double life as Red John. The elements in this episode that lent support to this theory were almost thrown right in our faces, making me think there’s either no way to deny this theory as being more plausible than ever, or that it should be completely wiped off the table. I’m going with the former.

The biggest and most obvious hat-tip was the main San Joaquin Killer story, with Panzer as the killer-in-plain-sight. The notion of a killer keeping himself very close to the investigation of his crimes has come up before in this show, and here it is again. Jane fits that same profile, though I do not believe for a second that he’s aware of being Red John, whereas Panzer clearly seems to know what he is and even thrives on it.

There was one moment in the kill room where Panzer comes right out and says something that all but puts the Red John pointer right at Jane: “That kind of duplicity … leading a double life. I don’t know how you do that.” The piece of owl wallpaper behind Panzer in that scene might symbolize something — like “seeing what is hidden” — but more than likely it was just there to show us that Panzer had been there earlier, so he’s clearly the SJK.

Besides those obvious clues, the one thing that seemed to stand out to me was the episode’s title — “Blinking Red Light” — and the scene where we see said light. It felt like that blinking light was a symbol for how Jane is able to switch back and forth from himself and Red John. It seemed as though it was right there in our faces, and it even caused Jane to bring up Red John during the interview. It felt as though Panzer was really getting to Jane, and him having to calm himself with a drink of water — and then, later, a visit to Panzer’s dressing room — seemed to show Jane somewhat losing his cool. Because Panzer was badmouthing his alter-ego, bringing him to the surface? Maybe something as simple as a calm drink of water symbolizes him making the switch; I’ll have to pay attention to that in the future. Simon Baker actually directed this episode, so that was all very purposeful of him.

The whole interview with Panzer was enough on its own to support the theory, and it’s one of those scenes we’ll go back to look at once the reveal is made some day that Patrick was Red John all along. I don’t care if people believe syndication sales would plummet if it was known who or what Red John really is. Have similar reveals caused shows to fail afterwards?

What do you think? Any other signs or symbols I missed?

Photo Credit: CBS

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58 Responses to “Was The Mentalist’s Red John ever gone? Nope, because he’s Patrick Jane”

November 3, 2011 at 11:48 PM

I’ve finally given up on Lisbon as the killer (and, excluding her red hair, van Pelt never crossed my mind).

It’d be awesome if Jane were the killer. However, that’s clearly something they’d save for the show’s end. Or, they could reveal Jane as RJ next season, but use all subsequent episodes where he continues to fight crime as atonement.

Or, what if Jane found RJ after his family’s death, killed him, but continues to leave taunting messages to himself? Let’s pretend the recent RJ-related crimes are just carried out by RJ followers who received instructions after his death.

November 4, 2011 at 9:59 AM

Aw, c’mon. There aren’t many of us left still hoping for the Lisbon heel turn.

Not that I seriously think it will be Jane or anyone on the team this far down the line. It’s far too lighthearted a murder procedural to go that dark in the end with this little buildup (I’d sooner believe that twist on Profiler than The Mentalist). I just like to imagine Evil Lisbon to make the dull episodes sparklier (it also made the bomb vest much less stupid).

November 4, 2011 at 2:36 AM

I’ve been hesitant to jump on this theory for so long, if for no other reason than we’ve all seen Fight Club and so many other story lines in which the main character has multiple personalities but is unaware of their actions, and I really had hoped that the writers had something more original in mind. However, I agree that this episode seemed to fall over itself in a race to point to that possibility.

I’ll also say that, as far as hints go, Jane’s comment about the San Joaquin killer “drinking his own kool aid” could be a subtle nod to Red John’s ability to lead and manipulate a cult-like band of followers (though as with all the hints, they are just subtle enough that only people going into online forums and seeing these kinds of theories would pick up on them, so they could easily just be a goof on all of us that the producers knew other target demos (middle aged and elderly fans) wouldn’t get so they were safe putting them in).

Also, it seemed to me that Red John came out before Panzer began antagonizing him. And as Jane was staring at the blinking red light it was as if he was being hypnotized just like he hypnotizes everyone else. This same cut-away/glance to the light coincided with Panzer saying “he’s growing more bold and more confident every day. More sure of his abilities and his greatness, and why shouldn’t he be? He’s been able to evade detection so easily, he’s too good to be caught.” After this little speech is when Jane’s mental state seems to shift measurably (he actually has to be called out of a trance by Karen Cross). Though Panzer was talking about himself, the exact same statements could be applied to Red John, who was so confident and good at evading detection he even convinced Jane for a while that he had successfully killed him. So I don’t really think Jane was simply losing his cool, but that this might have been our first actual on screen view of Red John (and it would also have been bold to come out on live tv).

What I would be most interested in if this theory is revealed to be true is how Jane developed Multiple Personality Disorder/Dissociative Identity Disorder. Since it’s the kind of psychological phenomenon that is so captivating to the imagination, but so rare as to be more difficult to study, there is no conclusive evidence to support a physiological cause for this disorder, so it is often attributed to traumatic or stressful childhood events such as prolonged abuse at the hands of a primary caregiver. I wonder if the writers/producers have in mind a backstory for Jane prior to his carny days, or if his relationship with his father during those years was traumatic enough. I just don’t want them to cop out like other franchises that use this mechanism and act like anyone and everyone could wake up one day with multiple personalities.

Finally, I wonder what the trigger would have been for Red John to snap and start killing people, and if they will give a more complete timeline of when his activities began, since building up an army of obedient and unwaveringly loyal underlings and killing as many people as he must have to gain so much attention would have taken quite a lot of time and effort, presumably at the same time Jane was married and starting a family and working enough as a psychic to pay for what has been shown as an extremely affluent lifestyle.

November 4, 2011 at 3:43 AM

What this episode had me wondering was, if the FBI swooped in to take over the SJK case after 5 murders why have they not taken over the Red John case? it’s a much higher profile case with more victims and repeated failures by the CBI. Will they take over the case now that Jane has set up a suspect to be killed by Red John? The addition of the FBI agent seemed so pointless that I feel that they were just laying groundwork for a future appearance.

November 4, 2011 at 6:47 AM

After reading this theory, it seems to make some sense. However, it seemed more like Jane saw the blinking light and saw an opportunity to proof him being right about Red John still being alive by luring Panzer out to do what he did and what Kristina Frye had also done: talk about Red John on national TV. This because it was clear Panzer wasn’t going to fall for Jane’s plan to make him speak highly of the killer. In a way, Jane seemed to find himself up against the wall with a killer that could not be caught and figured having him, in all his arrogance, comment on Red John would both have the SJK punished for his crimes and Red John surfacing. Of course, this doesn’t mean the theory of Jane himself being Red John is wrong (since these things could easily both be true). I do think the chance of some other person in the show being Red John is more likely than it being Jane.

November 4, 2011 at 7:12 AM

Y’know, that makes sense. It could be that Jane knew Panzer was the SJK, and as he looked at the blinking red light he realized he was in the same situation that he was in when he badmouthed Red John, and then his family was killed. Did Jane simply take the opportunity to make Panzer badmouth Red John, knowing that would likely bring him out of hiding and likely kill Panzer?

November 4, 2011 at 8:59 AM

See, that’s exactly what I got from the scene. Once he realized he couldn’t trick Panzer into a confession, he decided to go all dark-Jane, and lead Panzer down a path where he would piss off Red John to the point or retaliation.

It’s been a while, but I still can’t wrap my head the idea that Jane is Red John. I’m not saying it isn’t true, but that’s just such a big twist, it’s hard to accept.

November 5, 2011 at 9:17 PM

I think that is exactly what it is. Jane described SJK as a “sad little person” obviously to piss Panzer off, trying to get him all worked up and confess he was SJK(like Jack Nicholson in “A Few Good Men” when he called the Code Red). But Panzer saw that and told Jane “You are not going to ruin this for me”, and in a bold statement Panzer says SJK (that is himself) will kill again and many times more (it’s like “In your face, Jane! try and stop me, HA!”). Jane knows the FBI will not look into Panzer, at least soon to stop him, so how many girls, how many fathers’ daughters’ have to die before they get him. And then he sees the light, the blinking red one, and he thinks maybe RJ is watching…would he kill him as well if Panzer diminishes RJ? what better way to stop him AND confirm RJ is still alive. In a way, Jane played again the one trump card he has over RJ (him believing that Jane thinks he has killed RJ). And so is back to the beginning.

While it would be an interesting theory of Jane being RJ (Simon Baker says he has fantasized with it), Brunno Heler has squashed that rumor in the interview in the third season DVD. I think that Jane has it right when he says about SJK about being a person that has attached himself to the case, and it is the same with RJ, but in this case I think is someone powerful, with the resources and network to get himself not only inside law enforcement agencies, but to be able to get his people in important positions.

On another note, there were owls in Molly’s house (the scene with the family interview).

November 5, 2011 at 9:49 PM

Interesting — Can you quote what exactly was said in the S3 DVD that squashed that theory?

November 4, 2011 at 2:12 PM

Yeah that’s what I got out of the scene, too. My friend who I was watching with, yelled out, “He’s gonna make Red John kill him!”

November 4, 2011 at 9:33 PM

I agree with Dean about the blinking red light. It simply made him think of red… Red John. And as Dean said, he knew what RJ would do. And as far as the Jane is RJ theory, I think you’re just grasping… seriously. Evidence has shown that not to be true and the only thing you can fall back on is some dream theory. I still want to know what LaRoche was hiding in his safe. He seems to have left when RJ “died”. I wonder if he will be back on the next episode… hmmm… that would be interesting. The only one in the group that seems smart enough and steady enough to be RJ is Cho. Now THAT would be interesting. Cho is an interesting character. Bertram as RJ still fits too. He could have fired Jane but he didn’t. The show has taken taken an interesting turn. It is very watchable TV. Simon Baker plays it well and some pretty good directing too. Patrick Jane is Red John’s best friend.

November 4, 2011 at 7:27 AM

Jane clearky stated to Lisbon that even though her hands were tied he could still do something about the SJK killer, and its my oppinion that he went onto Karens show with the intention of getting Panzer to mouth of at Red John. I think the intentional pause when showing the blinking of the camera light was showing Jane deciding whether or not to go through with pushing Panzer/SJK over the edge.

November 4, 2011 at 8:46 AM

When doing all this analysis, you must keep one thing in mind: this show, as with all other shows on network TV, has one goal in mind and that is to make money. They make money by increasing viewership for the network which in turn increases advertising dollars for the network which in turn allows the producers to charge the network more for their show. Getting us viewers talking about who might be Red John and could it really be Patrick Jane leads to higher viewership and plays right into their hands. This makes for a great theater and keeps us interested in the show. However, the show will end one day and CBS’ biggest asset coming out of that show will be Simon Baker. He is a fine actor and I am betting they would like to move him right into a new series they would hope to be a hit. If it is revealed at the very end that he is really Red John that is going to turn off many people toward him because now he will be a “bad guy”. This will be particularly true of the middle aged/elderly demographic group mentioned above. I feel strongly the CBS and the show’s producers will do some masterful twists and turns to keep us viewers interested until the bitter end and protect their valued commodity in Simon Baker. So, I will go on record as saying that Patrick Jane is not Red John and bankroll it with CBS’ $$$$$!!!!!!!!

November 4, 2011 at 9:05 AM

Bon, I can’t agree with you. The “show” as you say, doesn’t specifically have the goal of making money in mind. It’s a small distinction, but I think an important one. CBS certainly has the goal of maximizing profit. But The Mentalist (Which isn’t produced by CBS, but by Warner Bros Television) is a different story; If you boil down the show’s motivation down to once sentence, I’d say it’s more likely “To stay on the air.”

Keith’s got a great point about syndication rights that goes to your point. WBTV is eventually going to want to be able to sell the syndication rights, and make their money. How difficult will that be when loyal viewers find out in the last season/episode/whatever that the show’s hero was the villain the whole time. Will the end of the show ruin fan’s enjoyment at watching earlier seasons again? If you’d like an example of yes, just ask Keith about Battlestar Galatica :)

November 4, 2011 at 3:50 PM

Jane is clearly NOT the killer. Why waste time running down this bizarre side path? It’s just a red herring ( sorry) that leads away from clues to the real killer, who is probably someone right inside or higher up in the CBI.

November 4, 2011 at 3:59 PM

The point is he doesn’t even know he’s the killer.

November 5, 2011 at 1:51 AM

Ha ha ha. The point is that since “Jane is clearly NOT the killer” it’s a total subversion of our expectations as the audience, which is more interesting than Red John turning out to be the classic live in the woods/in the house I grew up in with my dead mother’s corpse/dress up like a clown for the neighborhood children brand of serial killer. Anyway, it’s just fun to speculate. As I’m sure you realize, we’re not trying to solve actual homicides, so we don’t lose anything by traveling the bizarre side paths for a bit.

November 4, 2011 at 6:45 PM

Jane is not Red John. The blinking red light is when Jane came up with the idea of pushing Panzer into denigrating Red John on TV. Remember what happened when Jane and then Kristina Frye spoke like they knew Red John on TV? Jane knew Red John would take vengeance. Serial killer killing serial killer (Say that 10 times fast).

November 4, 2011 at 6:59 PM

Hmmm… not a fan of this theory. Jane just cannot have killed Jared Renfrew. Further, Jane has spoken to at least five persons who (claim to) know RJ. Would they all just play along with Patrick being unconscious of being RJ? And why? As said, not convinced…

November 5, 2011 at 1:17 AM

There was a previous episode (cannot remember) in some season where Patrick Jane told Lisbon that ‘camera steals his soul’…It was an episode where some TV show company were making documentary on CBI..It is highly likely that there is some connection between Camera, Red John and Patrick Jane.

November 5, 2011 at 1:32 AM

I agree with everyone that Jane could have just planned on forcing Red John’s hand and getting rid of SJK in one move. All in all though, I like the Jane/John theory more because in hindsight it will be more satisfying to have known Red John. For me, one of the most upsetting things about Bradley Whitford as RJ was that it felt like being introduced to someone you had been dying to meet and then only getting to talk to them for 20 seconds. As much of this story as has been driven by or centered around RJ, I want to know so much more about his backstory and personality than has been revealed about any of the abandoned potential suspects. I think that’s why so many people do have a secret favorite on the team like Cho or Lisbon who they hope might be RJ (even if it’s just to get through the dull episodes). But ultimately I don’t think highly enough of anyone else in the CBI to give them that place in my heart (though if we find out more about the new boss I could be swayed).

November 5, 2011 at 8:00 AM

Coming to think about it, I start to understand this episode less and less. First, Jane goes through a big deal of hastle to setup Hightower as a bait in such a way that RJ doesnt see the trap. Now, he gets the bait for free and just lets RJ kill the dude!

And RJ must absolutely have understood that Jane setup Panzer to offend RJ, but RJ kills him anyway, without suspecting a trap there…

November 5, 2011 at 1:30 PM

Thing is that maybe RJ waited for a certain moment to return. I don’t think this was Jane luring RJ into a trap, but Jane luring SJK into a trap, knowing RJ well enough to know that insulting him on national television would mean SJK had to pay. It clearly shows RJ, like SJK, is a man (or maybe woman) who doesn’t like to be spoken about in a bad way (Like it said on the note left in Jane’s house after RJ killed his family).

One thing I noticed, watching some old RJ-related episodes: the RJ-smiley face’s eyes somewhat resemble Jane’s eyes. This just in support of the OPs idea of Jane being RJ.

November 6, 2011 at 11:14 PM

Did anyone else notice that Jane never drinks tea in this episode? Only water..almost in a fore shadowing/ intentional way. His obsession with tea has always been intriguing to me. Perhaps its the way he remains Jane and not rj. Being attached to every rj case, ex carny , the fact that he catches every killer on the show.. he is a mentalist, which by definition is a conman.. I mean the fact that he can catch clues that are otherwise unseen, would suggest that he, alone would be the only one able to murder all of these people and manipulate all of the evidence thus evading the law. Smiley face does indeed look just like Jane.

November 7, 2011 at 9:16 AM

How can Patrick Jane be “Red John” if Red john spoke with him the episode “His Red Right Hand”???? In my opinion Red John is the Director of CBI Gale Bertram…
And O laughlin was his helper…

November 7, 2011 at 9:19 AM

How do we know he spoke with Red John? It could all be in his head, like papa Harry is to Dexter.

November 7, 2011 at 10:37 AM

I’m not 100% sure if Jane is Red John, but after this episode I’ll be surprised if he isn’t. At the very least RJ is someone extremely close to Jane, maybe his father or an evil twin brother, etc.

Several points:

– When Jane said to Panzer “You don’t what you’re saying” as Panzer continued to mock RJ, Jane’s face looked menacing.

– Ever notice how the Red John face on the walls written in blood resemble Patrick?

– The comment of the SJK hiding in plain site, same as RJ.

– The name Red John is sort of opposite to Patrick Jane. The name Jane is opposite to the name John, (i.e. Jane Doe vs. John Doe)

Also, when you think “Patrick” what color comes to mind?

Green. Color blind people cannot distinguish between green and red, they both appear to be the same color.

Just like William Blake has a poem about Lambs (the flip side of Tiger). One is evil, one is good.

We already know that the man Jane killed wasn’t the real Red John. Which also means that Red John can get others to imitate him. So even Jane (as an alter ego) could have programmed the man Jane killed.

November 7, 2011 at 1:54 PM

Wish I’d read some of your related articles before I made my previous post.

Looks like you guys already hashed out some of those ideas. :-)

I do like the proposed “Pink Jane/Red John” theory Mike proposed.

Right up until this episode I always thought Stiles was Red John, now I can’t shake the Jane is Red John feeling.

Even the new CBI boss profiled him as a psychopath in a previous episode.

If it somehow turns out not to be Jane, it will at least have to be someone with similar mentalist abilities, not just some run of the mill serial killer.

Can’t remember the details of the episode but it mentioned Jane’s wife wanted to leave the carnival life, but someone was set against it. Might be a clue there.

Anyway, Jane’s father (Red?) always chided Jane (Pink?) for his weakness in those flashbacks for showing compassion to the “marks” and tried his best to mold him into a more ruthless huckster.

November 7, 2011 at 2:16 PM

Well still a little on the wall about all of this. But I knew immediately that Panzer was SJK. It was pretty obvious, yes he was smart and yes he knew the Patrick Jane was on to him, but he was to conceded and it was his down fall.

Potential RJ’s:

Lisbon- everyone wants to automatically discard her. But lets look at the facts. In the end of last season, when the FBI Agent walked back to the police car at the gate and killed the two policemen. He did it very quickly and shot them both right in the forehead killing them instantly. When he got into the log cabin he shot Lisbon in the shoulder completely missing all vital areas ensuring that she wouldn’t die. Lisbon has access to all high security and law enforcement information. She is also usually never around when RJ commits a murder. If Lisbon is the killer then the only reason Jane hasn’t figured it out is because he cares about her to much. She lives alone and no one actually suspects her in Law Enforcement because she is heading the investigation. Lisbon is a top choice for me.

Jane- Yes he would be the obvious person and as in the past with other shows its split personality issues.. But I believe this has been over done and it would just make the show in the end something to not remember. It would be just another I should have known. If Jane is the killer then there would have been no reason to kill his own family. The police were not on to him as being a potential killer. So why try to throw them off. No I don’t think we will see Jane as a Hannibal Lector and being the person helping out just to be found out to actually be the killer.

So if you really think about it Red John always seems to be one step ahead of Jane. And the only reason is because he is always talking to Lisbon and telling her his plans when they start to pan out. Lisbon knows Jane will kill Red John and if he finds out who it is. Hence why Red John is using so many helpers and why Lisbon was shot just to throw off Jane.

As far as SJK being killed by Red John,,, I don’t really know if Red John actually killed SJK or not. It wouldn’t be the first time someone has tried to copy cat a Red John Killing. Remember the Pshychologist that killed his partner. In that show Jane specifically stated that when Red John killed someone he would put the smiley face in such as a place so that it made the ultimate impact and created terror. It would be the first thing that someone would see and then they would see the body. But in the SJK killing you saw the body and then had to look to the right to see the smiley face… This would give Jane the ability to not be held accountable for killing an innocent man as mistaken for Red John because this killing he will say is not Red John. We will see…. I think in the SJK killing, I think Jane killed SJK and made it look like a Red John killing just to get justice for all the SJK victims. It wouldn’t be the first time Jane has killed someone as we all know!!!!!!

Only the future will tell……. :)

November 8, 2011 at 3:54 AM

Who is this new FBI lady with red hair that pops in to take over the case? What was with the long weird fore shadowing look between her and Jane before Lisbon tells Jane their hands are tied. And then look at her face when Jane arrives at the crime scene when rj kills sjk..

November 8, 2011 at 2:17 PM

Why did Panzer say “I was good”, not “I am good” at last?

November 8, 2011 at 2:28 PM

He was agreeing with what Jane said about him being “good,” as in convincing.

November 8, 2011 at 3:08 PM

ah, i c. thanks a lot. i thought he might know something bad gonna happen to him soon, but ur ans seems more convincing.

November 8, 2011 at 9:00 PM

Just happened upon this site and read the theories.

Lots of good ideas, but 2 issues to raise, both taking place in 2×23, “Red Sky In The Morning”.

Try securing someone to a chair of Jane’s size & weight, then tip the chair and try to right it as Red John did. This is no small feat and requires a sizeable amount of strength. If you have access to the scene, you’ll see the chair fairly easily righted with seemingly no hesitation or struggle.

Next, look at the height ratio’s of the players versus the chair height Jane is in. When Red John is directly behind the chair after righting it, the back appears to be just about 2 or 3 inches above navel height. There are several points where Red John’s height seems to be quite tall.

Conclusion, well none really, other than whomever it is, they are tall. Only “regular” cast player is Rigsby who is that stature and size to be able to lift the chair and fill the size requirements. Not saying it is he, but certainly is a possibility.

Let the games begin!

November 10, 2011 at 1:50 PM

The more I think about the “Pink Jane” / “Red John” theory, the more the diverse pieces seem to fit.

RJ obviously needs a lot of money to pull off his crimes, obviously more than Jane makes on a CBI consultant salary. Just think of all the episodes where the benevolent Jane bilks the wealthy of their extra money and gives to the poor like Robin Hood. What’s to prevent the Mr. Hyde Jane from using those same skills to get money at will to fund his crimes?

I went back and watched the original clip where Jane first finds RJ’s note on the bedroom door where his wife and daughter were killed. It begins: “Dear mister Jane”

RJ is so precise in all that he does. Everything has meaning. Everything else about the note is perfect (spelling, grammar, punctuation) except the salutation. When writing a letter, you’re never supposed to write out Mr., Mrs., etc. yet RJ goes out of his way to expand the word and make it lower-case, as if he’s mocking the weak side of Jane. A Dear Jane letter from Mr. John so to speak.

Maybe this last show is the beginning of a new direction for the Mentalist. The show is the best written one on television (with the exception of this season’s opener) and maybe it’s about to take a darker turn where the viewers are clueing into RJ’s identity but the other cast members are not. It could make a compelling story line.

Also, I’m not convinced that revealing Jane as John would kill syndication profits.

At this point, anybody other than Jane as Red John would seem ridiculous given the time invested in his character and his “closeness” to Jane.

Anyway, I’m now more convinced than ever that Jane is the alter-ego of John. :-)

November 10, 2011 at 4:52 PM

The RJ=PJ theory had been out for long, although i’ve always been sceptical about it. This latest episode really forces up this theory and made me rethink. I’m willing to accept a fight club like explanation for the season 2 finale, where RJ and Jane meet. But i can’t see how Jane could have killed Jared Renfew. Logistically, that. Any ideas here from RJ=PJ fans?

Btw, same goes for the RJ=Lisbon theory. Incompatible with the Renfrew murder…

November 15, 2011 at 3:35 PM

Jane himself didn’t have to kill Renfrew. We already know people kill and are willing to die for RJ. Jane could have simply set the wheels in motion for him to killed knowing he would escape custody after being sprung from jail.

November 15, 2011 at 6:25 PM

Well, dont know about that. i guess you agree that rj=pj only holds if jane is unaware of his rj alter. This means jane has to be on the phone with renfrew, hurry to mexico with the cbi unit, switch to the rj alter and phone an accomplice without the cbi people noticing and switch back to being jane before arrival. dont know…

Also, if you’d argue jane has an accomplice that uses the rj mo, including the smiley, which btw none of the accomplices did so far, why would you need jane to be rj? you might just call the accomplice the real rj and you wouldnt need jane for this theory at all…

November 13, 2011 at 7:08 PM

Red John is Patrick Jane? We have no time ask ourselves the right questions when we waste time on dead end hypothesis.

There are an important questions you all failed to ask because your obsession with stupid ideas. Red John saved Patrick Jane in the season 2 finale, Jane talk to him on the phone, Jane is very likely alibied for most of the murders including that of his wife and daughter. The writers would have to go to ridiculous lengths to explain all that away with delusion and friends of Red John. Then there is the question of motive. There plenty of rational reasons for killing your wife. There has never been a case of a man killing his eleven year old daughter that wasn’t a paranoid. Which is clearly not Jane’s character.

The most important question related directly to this episode “Blinking Red Light”: If Jane knew Red John would come after Panzer why didn’t Jane have Panzer followed? I thought he wanted vengeance for the murder of his wife and child. It seems to me that Jane is now more concern about the welfare of those SJK would harm than seeing Red John punished.

November 14, 2011 at 6:37 PM

Youre absolutely right, i tried to make this point earlier as well. the only thing i can think of is that killing rj (when jane still was convinced he killed rj) didnt bring him the relief he expected. The crave for vengeance must have declined a lot somehow…

November 15, 2011 at 3:58 PM

Not getting how you can definitively say that RJ saved Jane at the end of Season 2 just because the person in the mask said they were RJ.

The guy that Jane killed in the mall said he was RJ as well … and he’s dead.

Also, I’m not sure how you can say “Which is clearly not Jane’s character”.

The new CBI boss already let Jane know that he profiled him as a psychopath in an earlier episode, and Jane just smiled and sipped his tea.

As for Panzer, couldn’t it be an alter-ego self preservation thing to not have him followed so the “bad Jane” could kill him and make his getaway?

November 15, 2011 at 6:33 PM

i agree with hal on the season 2 finale. imho, jane lacks alibis for most rj actions, even the murder of his own family. At least, the alibis are not shown to us. The only murder we see an alibi is the renfrew murder, as jane is with the cbi people between the last time we see renfrew alive and the moment hes dead… But i know that hal doesnt agree on this… :)

November 15, 2011 at 10:24 PM

I agree that Jane was with the CBI when Renfrew was found dead and didn’t do the killing himself, but that doesn’t mean he didn’t orchestrate the killing.

Couldn’t RJ’s accomplice have followed Renfrew as he escaped custody? It’s not like RJ is short on killers who do his bidding (e.g. Bosco’s secretary, Van Pelt’s fiance, hit-woman who jumped off balcony to protect RJ’s identity, etc.).

November 15, 2011 at 6:40 PM

btw hal, if the lack of respons would be caused by self preservation, you would argue that the alter egos are aware of each others existence and emotions… not impossible, but that would really ruin the show for me. a killer playing with somebody he knows is himself… too far fetched…

November 15, 2011 at 10:15 PM

I’m not saying the “good” Jane has been consciously aware of the “bad” Jane all along, but so much of the show is geared towards conscious/sub-conscious subtleties, at this point, nobody else can logically fit the bill for RJ (imo).

My take is that the “good” Jane has always thought Red John was someone else and he went to the show to try and draw RJ out to kill Panzer. However, something was different about his response and demeanor during and after he was absorbed by the flashing red light. It was like he was a different person. Or perhaps he realized for the first time that he might be Red John. His “You don’t know what you’re saying” warning to Panzer reminded me of the old Bruce Banner warning “Don’t make me angry. You wouldn’t like me when I’m angry.”

November 15, 2011 at 11:14 PM

Jane manipulated red John into killing panzer. Jane knew red John always watches anything Jane is on.
He said things to get panzer to bad mouth red John – thus provoking/manipulating red John to kill panzer.
Jane did this because he knew the FBI were not going to consider panzer as a suspect, and he would continue killing.

November 15, 2011 at 11:08 PM

Jane provoked panzer to “bad mouth” red John (about the fact that he had let jane kill him) Jane knows that red John doesn’t like “untruths” to be spoken about him. Jane also needed proof that he hadn’t killed red John, and he infant was still alive, (remember the episode where he told lisbane that red John was still alive?) hence the smile when he saw the red John smiliey on the wall. Jane basically used the media to provoke red John into killing panzer because he knew the FBI would never take him seriously as a suspect, and would continue killing.

The theory about Jane being the killer and leading a double life is ridiculous. I can understand why the theory would make sence if you looked from that angle – but it is the wrong angle to be taking.

Red John being caught will be the end of the series. I must admit when I realized what Jane was doing in the interview, and what he saw when he walked into the warehouse and saw the smiley – I smiled and said “he’s back”. The show is 10 times better when the red John character is alive.

December 5, 2011 at 6:57 PM

the particular scenario would be quite an ending when revealed, but the blind woman who was apparently married to red john, thus if jane was red john she would have recognized the voice or the scent or the touch even.

Secondly in the season where the team looks to attain that one body which is being told as red john’s first/only mistake, the secretary who killed bosco and his team, when she is about to be bought to her death, she recognizes the person who ends up killing her with the poison. The joy with which she reacted, certainly points to the fact that its red john, because in none of the episodes at least none that i can remember, has there been an instance where it is hypothesized that red john’s helpers or followers have seen or know each other. So the only conclusion is the secretary knew the killer, and thus that killer was red john. While all this was happening down below in the holding stair area, Jane was upstairs with lisbon and his team and hearing the alarm he then rushes down. So it would be practically impossible for him and red john to be in the same place, unless split personality literally means SPLIT into two.

There can be various instances given to support every theory, but its more likely the writers screwing with the fans to keep us intrigued, cause really what would the show be without the niggling questions that linger in our head regarding the identity of red john.

December 7, 2011 at 8:11 PM

You can also see that when Jane gets the call about the murder of SJK, his phone also has a blinking red light, which might be an immediate trigger to Jane’s change of personalities.

December 8, 2011 at 8:43 AM

i know the arch-enemy will never be revealed even until the end of production.
but this stupid red john thingy become boring iritating at least annoying.

December 14, 2011 at 9:33 PM

Guys… Bertram.
when Hightower escapes with Patrick’s help.. he comes over and recites poetry by william blake. DING DING DING.. that tyger tyger muttered to Patrick by Red John is also a William Blake poem. …
i like Bertram for Red John. he has resources, inside information, influence etc.

December 20, 2011 at 7:50 AM

The blinking red light was the light of the camera right or was it the flickering red light that was in the room that Van Pelt found the photographs?

December 23, 2011 at 4:02 PM

See, ok that’s just stupid.. the episode did not support the theory.

Watching now all the seasons in a short time it’s just obvious that in this episode where he got that “reporter” to slander Red John on TV, he just knew he’d come after him.

See, Red John killed PJ’s family for slandering him on TV and also kidnapped Christina Fry and made her all psycho. So PJ deliberatly got him to slander him on tv cause he knew Red John would hate it. And they would never make Patrick the killer, everyone would hate it.

January 21, 2012 at 8:38 PM

Jane is not Red John
yes, Jane did get Red John to kill Panzer (the SJ Killer) in that episode and he admits it too. It was the only way to stop Panzer.
There is a theory with Jane and Red John’s names being Pink Jane (Patrick being another word for pink, look it up) and Red John, that goes along with the tiger tiger poem about symmetry which is pretty much what the show has always been saying how Jane and Red John are alike yet the opposite.
BUT in the episode “Red John’s Footsteps” it shows a shadowy figure fleeing the scene when Jane was being held captive. Now, yes, that could just be Red John’s helper, but they wouldn’t have shown something so small if Jane is Red John, then they would have to go back and explain it and it would be pointless.
Also Jane said “Red John was here” in that episode which would also have been a stupid thing to show if Jane is Red John.
I hope I can clear a few things up.

February 8, 2012 at 12:14 PM

First can i say schizophernic does not have duel personalitys (elustions paranio etc yer) they would not have a personality or life they dont know about, now i know TV gets things wrong but i hope this show does not do somthing so stupid as to get that illness so wrong that would be insulting. so the hole he is RJ but dont know it cos of schizophrenia is wrong.
Personaly i beleive the staring at red light was him getting the idea remember he has not been on camera since that time he triggered RJ to kill his whife and child and maybe staring at the light reminded him and then gave him the idea then he had to make the desion is he really going to do this knowing the consiquences. he seemed triggered by the statment there will be more victims many more.
Jane knew saying what he did would make SJK insult RJ and that as before RJ would punish for it. come on this is Jane he isnt stupid enough to think he could argue RJ as better killer and he never tryed.
I think we have met RJ but its not the team RJ would not live daily being out manouvered by Jane as all members are its not in his charictor i think RJ has had little interaction with Jane but we do however know him

My worry of this is Jane has now had his hand in two murders are they making Jane dark? Jane would never have done these things if RJ had never killed his family my thought is are they making him as such someone RJ will see as a possible companion (not that i feel he ever would) but its a worry how much they can currupt him

February 8, 2012 at 12:21 PM

I also think there is a clue in the poem TIGER TIGER but William Blake

February 15, 2012 at 4:25 PM

You’re really misinterpreting what happened in Blinking Red Light, which was a brilliant episode by the way. Jane figures out that Panzer is the San Joaquin Killer, but the police department refuses to go after him, and Jane’s sense of justice will not let him allow Panzer to go free, so he finally lets the annoying journalist lady interview him and sets a trap for Panzer. Knowing that Red John is still out there, the fact that Panzer didn’t know this, the fact that Panzer reveled in the attention (which is why he maintained the website on the SJK), and lastly, the fact that Red John hates being mocked on television (as evidenced by his retaliation against Jane’s family), Jane springs the perfect trap. He brings up Red John in comparison, knowing Panzer will want to say he is even more brilliant than Red John. Obviously, this isn’t the case given the impossible kills Red John pulls off, so his ego enraged, Red John easily deals with Panzer. Jane obviously knew this would happen – he stares into the blinking red light KNOWING that Red John is listening, knowing Panzer is digging his own grave, and sadly flashes back to his own television experience as Panzer continues to mock Red John on live tv, which Jane knows is a death sentence.

February 15, 2012 at 4:27 PM

Basically, if you didn’t realize as Jane stared at the blinking red light that Red John would kill Panzer, you missed the point of the episode. It seemed so obvious knowing Jane and John’s psychology what he had done.